[Alpine-info] whitelisting addresses?

[Damion Yates via Alpine-info]

Sorry, you're not wrong and I definitely agree that respecting, and
providing choices for individuals is key.

I worked for a decade at the BBC and we attempted to maintain what I called
lynx compatible sites.  Old style predominantly text based sites that
worked with emacspeak and similar older html parsing accessibility software
loves older UIs.  It was an arms race for said tooling keeping up with
minor tweaks.

I'm not as qualified as you but I do believe nobody in Google (and the
wider community at Meta and MS for example) is acting with outright malice
with regards to UIs and accessibility.  There are specific very modern tags
for the latest tech in terms of providing hints for things like screen
control and readers.  Frankly these days I'd expect the best success with
AI, as it can now navigate through webpages and summarise the results in
whatever means somebody desires.

I'm struck with panic over the deprecation of X11 for Wayland, as a user of
Xvoice (using ancient ViaVoice) and similar X11 only tech, I'm going to be
unable to use my system as IU have done for 30+ years once this deprecation
finishes.

There is of course a level of change aversion that comes into play here of
course.

I still love and use XTerm, screen with pine, irc and vi as I have done
since the late 1900s and do appreciate the anguish of the changes made
preventing older browsers to work on google tooling.  But for the moment,
xoauth2 works with IMAP and alpine supports this.  It's just a bit annoying
that to get this going somebody needs to play around for 5mins in the
latest cloud+GMail WebUIs to configure authentication tokens, forwards,
imap, spam management once in a while perhaps with somebody's help.

  Best wishes,

 - Damion

On Fri, Sep 5, 2025 at 4:31 AM Karen Lewellen <klewellen at shellworld.net>
wrote:


> Good for accessibility for who exactly?

> certainly almost no one on Google's own accessibility mailing list would

> agree..after all its not like individuals using adaptive technology are

> interchangeable for one another.

> Everything from voice browsers to highlighting tools for individual

> cognitive

> experiences appreciate  the baseline basic html provided.  And of course

> having that floor does not prevent   graphical interfaces for those who

> prefer them.

> its a matter of respecting, and providing choices for individuals to

> create what their body requires.

>

>

> On Thu, 4 Sep 2025, Damion Yates wrote:

>

> > I understood that gmail's new UI should be great for accessibility and

> most

> > good screenreaders should work with its html div layouts and specific

> > accessibility hooks.

> > The settings in gmail like adding filters and people to contacts to

> > decrease incorrect spam, if you can't abide by the new UI could be done

> > with somebody's help, but ultimately the sender's ability to send with

> low

> > risk domain (SPF etc) is really the fix.

> >

> > Annoyingly my conveyancing solicitor has 100% of their emails classified

> as

> > spam and I continually mark these as "not spam", but the learning

> algorithm

> > is taking its sweet time or too many other people have decided they

> > are spam or other signals in the email, so this isn't a quick fix and

> > checking spam regularly is needed.

> >

> > I'm about 95% sure that under IMAP the action of moving out of spam into

> > another folder (labels in gmail), DOES attempt to flag to gmail just like

> > the "not spam" button in the UI.

> >

> > You may need the UI to enable visibility of the spam label (as a folder)

> to

> > be seen by IMAP.  As these are configured on a label by label basis.  You

> > can also configure only the last 1000 messages to show which will speed

> > IMAP access up.

> > There are loads of useful features in the UI which sadly will be needed

> for

> > a bit even if you mostly use IMAP (like me).

> >

> > I tend to use offlineimap so sync as local NVMe is faster than a network

> > connection over to europe/usa from the UK, but I occasionally directly

> > connect to IMAP and this is a pain because you need to get the xoauth2

> > stuff working which I always worry about.  offlineimap seems to be easier

> > in this regard, but sending will also need xoauth2 anyway unless you want

> > to risk sendmail which is likely going to lead to your own emails to be

> > classified as spam.

> >

> >

> > - Damion

> >

> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2025 at 1:43 AM Karen Lewellen via Alpine-info <

> > alpine-info at u.washington.edu> wrote:

> >

> >> Hi Andrew,

> >> as shared I no longer have any direct access to gmail. Nor do I know who

> >> *someone* is.

> >> These days, speaking personally, I resonate with your gmail not working

> in

> >> absolutes stance.

> >> Would not risk tampering with my setup for sure.

> >> Kare

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> On Wed, 3 Sep 2025, Andrew C Aitchison via Alpine-info wrote:

> >>

> >>> On Tue, 2 Sep 2025, Karen Lewellen via Alpine-info wrote:

> >>>

> >>>>  Let me be more specific to avoid confusion.

> >>>>  When google removed the inclusive access to gmail via basic HTML, I

> >>>>  secured a service that gives me access to it, using alpine, via imap.

> >>>>  That service does not really know much about how alpine works.

> >>>>  There are times when gmail places items into its spam folder that

> >> should

> >>>>  not be placed there.

> >>>>  In basic html I could say add that address to contacts avoiding the

> >> issue.

> >>>>  Now though this door is closed.

> >>>>  I seek a method within alpine itself, as the email client, that

> >> manages

> >>>>  this process.

> >>>>  Does one exist?

> >>>

> >>> If I understand correctly, GMail puts messages in the spam folder

> before

> >>> imap sees them, so there is no way that Alpine can stop them from going

> >> in.

> >>>

> >>> There may (or may not) be a hook in Alpine where you could add

> >>> something which reads the spam folder by imap and moves selected

> >>> messages out to some other folder.

> >>> Can anyone say whether there is such a hook - Eduardo ?

> >>>

> >>> There is probably a way within GMail that you (or someone sitting

> beside

> >>> you at the screen) can whitelist certain addresses. You would have to

> do

> >> this

> >>> each time you wanted to whitelist a new sender, but from then on

> >>> messages from that person are likely to stay in your inbox rather than

> >>> the spam folder. I say "likely to" because my undertanding is that

> >>> GMail does not work in absolutes.

> >>>

> >>> --

> >>> Andrew C. Aitchison                      Kendal, UK

> >>>                   andrew at aitchison.me.uk

> >>> _______________________________________________

> >>> Alpine-info mailing list

> >>> Alpine-info at u.washington.edu

> >>> http://mailman23.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info

> >>>

> >> _______________________________________________

> >> Alpine-info mailing list

> >> Alpine-info at u.washington.edu

> >> http://mailman23.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info

> >>

> >

> >

> > --

> > Damion Yates - damion.yates at gmail.com

> > London, England

> >




-- 
Damion Yates - damion.yates at gmail.com
London, England
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